Supplying many times your RDA for cynicism...

Unfortunately, your solutions appeal neither to gun-happy racist rednecks who're itching to shoot the wetbacks down as they cross the borderor to entrenched business interests who're looking for cheap, desperate unskilled labour. It is thus doomed to fail.

Have a nice day!

-D.

Re: Supplying many times your RDA for cynicism...

That said, I personally think you're right on all counts. :)

-D.

Re: Supplying many times your RDA for cynicism...

And that's the problem.

Building a wall between the US and Mexico appeals to, ahem, certain politicians for the simple fact that it will do absolutely nothing. Corporations will continue to receive a steady supply of powerless labor, while xenophobes will feel like they're making a statement.

And it will make a statement--a statement is only going to further corrode the US's reputation. Just what we need.

Re: Supplying many times your RDA for cynicism...

And it's not as if actual solutions are in short supply, even if we discount yours as being too hippie/pinko/unAmerican.

They could, yaknow, adequately fund the INS so that it doesn't have backlogs that range from months to years and force the desperate into action. Or actually punish the people who employ illegal immigrants and remove their incentives to cross the border. Just to think of two.

Each of these likely cheaper than building and manning (because otherwise what's the point?) a two-thousand mile wall.

-D.

Re: Supplying many times your RDA for cynicism...

Punish people who employ illegal immigrants? You mean actually rein in a corporation? You have got be kidding me. It took years of boycott just to get Taco Bell out of the pseudo-slavery business in Immokalee, FL.

It's pretty sad that it takes a nationally organized effort just to get people to follow the law, when there's an executive branch employing 4.2 million people as of 1998. I imagine that number is much higher now. (Source.)

Re: Supplying many times your RDA for cynicism...

(Just me being cynical, of course. I agree with you completely.)

Re: Supplying many times your RDA for cynicism...

Congressional accounts estimate that building a wall will cost, oh, $2 billion. Oddly enough, that's the exact amount that Congress is refusing to give to the residents of New Orleans so they can rebuild their city.

I totally agree with this. Shutting the borders seems like it should be a last-ditch solution... there really are better ways to deal with the issue, particularly in a country that was founded by immigrants! -_-

[Deleted and re-posted to remove the errant subject line, though I agree with the above thread too. Heh.]

er, sure, we at one time wanted your tired, your poor, your hungry......but i kinda think that we as a country have come into our own.......many years ago, really. We have our Own problems now, we don't really Need the poor, tired and hungry from anywhere else....and yet we allow lots(not sure on the actual number) to immigrate here......legally, even.

And, regardless, coming into the US without following the immigration laws(swimming the Rio Grande or over staying a visa) is, er, well, breaking the laws.

Do we Really want a whole group of folks that disregard our countries Law from the very beginning they start their life here?

It seems kind of odd and unpatriotic to openly oppose the Statue of Liberty.

Personally, I think immigration can only help us, as it has helped us in the past. Without immigration, we would have fewer tourist areas (which brings in money), a weaker selection of music and other entertainment (which also brings in money), and so on. I can't imagine where California would be now if it weren't for all the Chinese immigrants we were receiving at one time, as they built the railroads and basically opened up the west.

And I'd say we have fewer problems at present than we did before. We can certainly afford the poor, tired, and hungry now, if we managed just fine 50 and 100 years ago. And if we can't... well, that says something about the inefficiency of our government, which is bigger today that it has ever been in the entire history of the nation.

Shutting the borders and building a wall strikes me as a rather extremist way to go about it. Whatever happened to, you know, finding moderate solutions to our problems?

Aw, go stand in front of a Circle K ya hippy!

heh heh.

now, since I am currently filing the paperwork to bring my fiance into this country, as a Legal immigrant(I can't bring myself to call here an Alien unless she sprouts tenacles, or something) I feel I can speak on this.

Legal migration is good. anything else, not so good. Yes, we are spending ALOT of money in Iraq, but WAY less then we have spent keeping troops in Europe, South Korea, and Boise over the years....

Unfair trade? Have you looked into what we Give to the world recently? Unless you were refering to how much of a break we give to Other nations.....

cutting down on corporate welfare is a good thing.

Maybe cutting back on tax breaks for churches/religous groups would help, too, though. They get a better break then any company does.....

Suddenly giving all the illeagal immigrants a break and Legal protections? Should we just empty our jails too, our should we only give those that have broken the law and Not been Caught a deal? er, is that really a good idea? They Do have protections already, 911 services, highways and medical care in most hospitals can't be denied for first line medical care......and yet they are Not required to pay the taxes to support those services...

and, one more rant, a fair tax system would help, too. A flat tax would tax everyone, immigrants trying to start anew, Americans trying to make ends meet, criminals spending their ill-gotten booty( or bill otten gooty).

My future wife will start working as soon as we are married, won't have to send money home(a good thing, for anyone who knows me knows how screwed up My finances are!) and will will contribute to the country with her education, her language skills and her ability to keep me in line.

Immigration can be good, but only if done legally. I think there are enough chances for that the the 11 million estimated to be here breaking the Law should not be given a free ride, maybe something can be done but not a free ride.

all of the above

AMEN!!!! AMEN!!!!!

By unfair trade, I am referring to our so-called "free trade" attempts, which equal out to US companies getting subsidies to sell products to third world nations, while those third world nations are not allowed to have their own subsidies or tariffs to compete effectively within their own borders.

"They Do have protections already, 911 services, highways and medical care in most hospitals can't be denied for first line medical care......and yet they are Not required to pay the taxes to support those services..."

Illegal immigrants generally do not use 911 services or medical services because they are afraid of being deported. This fear of deportation creates all sorts of problems. For example, illegal immigrants are expected to fill out the US census in order to determine population density and, therefore, how much funding an area should get to support all these people. But illegal immigrants usually do not fill out the census because they are afraid they will be found out.

And they do not pay taxes, and they work for rediciulously low prices. This is why I say we should have them pay taxes and work for minimum wage.

As you said, there still remains the fact that they have broken the law. This problem can be eliminated, however, by removing the illegal immigration factor altogether--that is, giving them no reason to come in the first place, and by giving people more oppurtunities to arrive legally.

The illegal immigrants that are here now still need to be dealt with, though. So do we continue what we're doing--haphazard deportations that will never amount to much because illegal immigrants, by definition, are undocumented and can't be tracked down--or do we do something to make them fully documented, useful members of society? I really believe that the latter option is the best choice for the future of this nation.

How it would be done, however, I am not sure. Maybe they should be given legal status, but also a fine for breaking the law. This would give incentive to future immigrants to save money by coming in the legal way than the illegal way. True enough, people who are desperate will come in any way they can, but my other proposals would greatly reduce the volume of desperate people trying to get here in the first place.

By the way, congratulations on your upcoming marriage!

It's not just illagal immigrants who are afraid of the Census. Their are millions of Americans every 4 years who tell the census to frack-off. Because they so hate the idea that the government wants information about them. Its besides the fact that the census bureau will not hire anybody who has had any government or state job other than the postal service. Does not share anything other than area population numbers with any state or government agency.

brain fart,every 10 years

In the year 2000, Dwight grabbed the census form, answered it and mailed it in before I could even see it and I got to do something I had only dreamed about. I got to sing, a la John Denver "You Filled Out My Census...."

Lyrics

Actually, it's "You Fill Up My Senses."

Re: Lyrics

...

Re: Lyrics

I realize that.